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View Full Version : Arathi Basin and "The Tony"


drakol
11/13/2005, 03:46 AM
After a thoroughly frustrating day in AB PuGs, I began thinking how nice it would be to run a DD AB group and whoop the pants off the alliance. However, I then began thinking of "The Tony" type groups and how we continually seem to have problems handling them. I just thought I'd post some thoughts about AB in general to help spark a little discussion. By no means am I claiming anything below will "work" or "is right"...at times some of it may seem critical. I just want to assure everyone up front that there's no intention to offend anyone or make someone feel they're not pulling their weight in AB...it's just meant to get people talking about what we can do to improve as a group.

There's no doubt in my mind that we communicate just fine. We're using vent and everyone does a pretty good job stating how many incoming alliance an area may have and whether assistance is needed. Short of everyone being in the same room together, I think we talk to each other about what's happening just fine.

What I think we could improve upon is responsiveness. Now, I'm not saying that we DON'T respond. What I'm saying is that we respond POORLY. If an area has incoming alliance and it's stated as such, people respond but it's never predictable. We can have anywhere between 1 person to everyone racing to help out. This isn't very efficient since it can cluster us in one place and thin us out in another. Also, it's never clear what classes are going to help out. If 3 people head to help out but they're all cloth wearers, there's a pretty decent possibility that they might not last too long. As a result, we're always on our heels REACTING to situations - just where the alliance wants us.

One thing we do well in the beginning is we have a plan of which groups go where in order to capture a node. However, our plan always ends there. After the initial rush to the flags, our groups fall apart and people start moving from place to place haphazardly. Now, I agree that we need to be flexible and adjust to the situation at hand, we just need to do it SMARTER.

One possible idea is that we think "out of the box" a bit. I know that sounds a bit cliche, but think about what Blizzard supplies us with. They give us a raid group with 8 nice groups of 5 people each. Why 5 people? Who knows? Should we always think in terms of 5 people then? Maybe not....

If we have 15 people, why not come up with 5 groups of 3? We'll have smaller, more mobile groups that have a better chance of getting where they need to quicker to help out. What we'd need to be conscious of is maintaining our groups throughout the match and setting them up in a way where the 3 people in each group compliment each other well.

What would this gain us? Well, if an area needs help, an ENTIRE group goes to help. This means the person requesting the help is getting 3 people as backup and they KNOW it. No surprises at all in what type of reinforcements to expect. Also, you're getting 3 people that compliment each other well. A group set up this way can be as effective as up to 5 people that we currently send to help out.

Also, 3 people is a pretty healthly number to guard a node and fend off attackers until help comes. It also makes sure that we don't take a node and leave it open. If you stick with your group and your group is guarding a node, we should always have 3 and support will never be too far away.

So how would the beginning of the match go? One group takes the farm and stays there to guard. Another goes to the lumber mill and yet another goes to the blacksmith. A fourth to the mines?....maybe. There could be benefit in that by disrupting the alliance there so they can't help out elsewhere. This could give us a chance to cap the lumber mill and blacksmith without them sending in reinforcements.

That leaves a fifth group of 3 strictly for support. Where they go depends on who needs the help. They could potentially hang back until it's known what area is getting zerged. They'd have the ability to help out either the lumber mill or the blacksmith, depending on who needs the help.

From there, I'm not sure how things would go, but our 3 man groups could be pretty effective in their mobility and complimentary nature.

Will this all work? I'm not sure. This turned out to be a bit longer than I originally intended, so I'm going to stop now and let the discussion begin. If anything, I hope that this at least gets us talking about possible improvements and if one good idea comes out of the discussion, it was worth it.

-Drakol

Kallik
11/16/2005, 12:26 AM
At what times do DD have a Vent AB running... Am I missing these while I'm at work. /cry

I agree some teams do need more coordination. What happens is also, the rock, paper, scissors effect. Some classes are better suited for defending flags and some are better at capping/assualting. Also skill level comes into play as well as gear/macros/addons/lag. PVP is deep... some nights Im kicking ass...some nights Im getting stomped.

Bill
11/16/2005, 09:30 AM
I can tell you we often put together a full DD AB team after raids, usually around 11:30 pm on Sun/Mon & Thurs. Those are the only ones I've been on.

Langston
01/18/2006, 09:37 AM
I can go into very long winded post regarding the strategies and pitfalls of AB. I don't think it's really necessary though. One of the reasons I decided to join DD was because of a long history of working together with some of your members when I was in Vendetta. You have some smart and able PVPers in the guild.

The trick to winning ANY battleground can be reduced to one word: teamwork. Move as a team, communicate to the team, respond as a team... and you will crush people.

Humanslayerr
01/18/2006, 08:32 PM
I think one of the most challenging parts of BGs is simply being the leader and bearing the responsibility of calling the plays that result in a win or loss. So props to people who step up and try to be a leader while listening to peeps in the raid.

Talking of tactics, breaking the tight 3node D has been something that's gnawing on my mind for a wee bit. My favourite counter is to rapidly alternate multiple nodes in an attempt to stretch out the enemy defense and overwhelm them to the point where you can mass one final quick attack to cap a node for real.
Recently though, this has met some setbacks (due to gear issues, having an epic mount really helps xD). So, I've tried to check for other solutions. I'm one of the regulars of the "Other" PvP group as it's been dubbed, and once there was a masterful decoy of the larger part of the raid group attacking a node and all the stealthies (3 or more) attacking the actual target which worked brilliantly. I've also tried having one group of people block the entryway to the node to stop reinforcements while another group attacks the node itself, but I find it takes too long to set up.

So any suggestions to countering the tight 3node D, besides not giving up 3 nodes at the beginning?

Langston
01/19/2006, 01:22 AM
There were two goods ways to break a heavily defended 3-node.

1) Like you say, send in a gank team to steal one while they're busy elsewhere. This only works if the other team over-responds to recovering the ganked node. You have to be able to take and hold either the node where the main attack is or the node your rogues turned. One or the other. If the opponent is capable, they'll send just enough people to the gank spot and recover it while holding off your main force. If they do that, a little luck is necessary to keep the 3rd node.

2) Alternate across the map. If you're NOT taking the node, that means you're dieing and rezzing at a spot closer to the node opposite of the one being attacked. If you take a rez wave to the second spot and attack immediately, the defenders typically haven't had enough time to get there to defend. Problem with this is that a single paladin defender can stall long enough to keep you from taking it before help arrives. Alliance has a serious advantage in AB due to that.

In reality, the best way to beat a 3-node turtle is to prevent it from happening with good openers. I know that doesn't help a bit... but it's the truth of the matter. Back in the day, if PP got 3 nodes on the break, we knew it was game over - and likewise for them.